Secret talks to rescue carrier deal

 

IAN BRUCE, Defence Correspondent October 27 2005

TheHerald

 

FRANCE could end up building part of the Royal Navy's two super-carriers, and ordering a third for itself, to allow the £3.6bn project to be completed within budget, according to senior Whitehall sources.

It would be the first such co-operative defence venture of its kind between the two countries.

The French government is considering ordering the British aircraft carrier in return for a share of the work on all three of the 60,000-tonne warships.

The move is also aimed at helping save thousands of shipbuilding jobs on the Clyde and at Rosyth, and at Southampton and Barrow-in-Furness in England. Industry and union officials fear workers could be laid off and expertise lost if construction were delayed by continued bickering between the Ministry of Defence and contractors over costs.

The two planned carriers, HMS Queen Elizabeth and HMS Prince of Wales, were originally scheduled to enter service in 2012 and 2015 respectively.

That timetable has already slipped by at least a year, leading to the threat of lay-offs at UK yards while they wait for the construction phase, hailed two years ago as "a new golden age on the Clyde", to begin.

A report on the details of a three-carrier deal, compiled jointly by the UK shipbuilding consortium and the French state-owned naval systems group, DCN, was submitted to both governments at the end of last month.

Bernie Hamilton, the Scottish regional officer for the shipbuilding union Amicus, said: "The vital thing is the timing of the orders. Shipyard employees have always been at the mercy of peaks and troughs in ordering policy."

Defence sources say the French are interested in the possibility of acquiring a state-of-the-art warship as a back-up for their ageing nuclear-powered carrier, the Charles de Gaulle, which has been plagued with problems.

A deal hinges on the share of the construction work for French yards in return for the savings that can be made from economies of scale by ordering three instead of two ships. The prospect has been made more attractive by the fact that Thales UK, a European de-fence company with strong French connections, designed the carriers and remains part of the consortium charged with building them.

The other partners are BAE's Scotstoun and Yoker yards in Glasgow and Cumbria, and the VT Group in Southampton.

The design calls for the 900ft carriers to be built in sections and assembled at Babcock-Rosyth's yard in Fife.

The UK-French talks, understood to be taking place at industrial, military and political levels, are working on the principle of French yards constructing the same sections for all three ships while UK companies build the rest of the vessels. The component parts of the French carrier would also be married up at Rosyth.

Admiral Sir Johnathon Band, RN fleet commander-in-chief, told The Herald this year acquisition of the warships to allow Britain to protect task forces without relying on the US was "crucial" to the navy's future.

Jean-Marie Poimbeauf, the DCN chief executive, said his group and Thales had drawn up a proposal recommending participation in the UK-French venture. "Our conclusion is that the British design is compatible with the operational needs of the French navy."

However, UK defence industry sources told The Herald the joint venture could also lead to further delays in the ordering process if the French insisted on last-minute technical changes. The MoD confirmed negotiations had taken place, but said no decisions had yet been taken.

FRANCE could end up building part of the Royal Navy's two super-carriers, and ordering a third for itself, to allow the £3.6bn project to be completed within budget, according to senior Whitehall sources.

It would be the first such co-operative defence venture of its kind between the two countries.

The French government is considering ordering the British aircraft carrier in return for a share of the work on all three of the 60,000-tonne warships.

The move is also aimed at helping save thousands of shipbuilding jobs on the Clyde and at Rosyth, and at Southampton and Barrow-in-Furness in England. Industry and union officials fear workers could be laid off and expertise lost if construction were delayed by continued bickering between the Ministry of Defence and contractors over costs.

The two planned carriers, HMS Queen Elizabeth and HMS Prince of Wales, were originally scheduled to enter service in 2012 and 2015 respectively.

That timetable has already slipped by at least a year, leading to the threat of lay-offs at UK yards while they wait for the construction phase, hailed two years ago as "a new golden age on the Clyde", to begin.

A report on the details of a three-carrier deal, compiled jointly by the UK shipbuilding consortium and the French state-owned naval systems group, DCN, was submitted to both governments at the end of last month.

Bernie Hamilton, the Scottish regional officer for the shipbuilding union Amicus, said: "The vital thing is the timing of the orders. Shipyard employees have always been at the mercy of peaks and troughs in ordering policy."

Defence sources say the French are interested in the possibility of acquiring a state-of-the-art warship as a back-up for their ageing nuclear-powered carrier, the Charles de Gaulle, which has been plagued with problems.

A deal hinges on the share of the construction work for French yards in return for the savings that can be made from economies of scale by ordering three instead of two ships. The prospect has been made more attractive by the fact that Thales UK, a European de-fence company with strong French connections, designed the carriers and remains part of the consortium charged with building them.

The other partners are BAE's Scotstoun and Yoker yards in Glasgow and Cumbria, and the VT Group in Southampton.

The design calls for the 900ft carriers to be built in sections and assembled at Babcock-Rosyth's yard in Fife.

The UK-French talks, understood to be taking place at industrial, military and political levels, are working on the principle of French yards constructing the same sections for all three ships while UK companies build the rest of the vessels. The component parts of the French carrier would also be married up at Rosyth.

Admiral Sir Johnathon Band, RN fleet commander-in-chief, told The Herald this year acquisition of the warships to allow Britain to protect task forces without relying on the US was "crucial" to the navy's future.

Jean-Marie Poimbeauf, the DCN chief executive, said his group and Thales had drawn up a proposal recommending participation in the UK-French venture. "Our conclusion is that the British design is compatible with the operational needs of the French navy."

However, UK defence industry sources told The Herald the joint venture could also lead to further delays in the ordering process if the French insisted on last-minute technical changes. The MoD confirmed negotiations had taken place, but said no decisions had yet been taken.

FRANCE could end up building part of the Royal Navy's two super-carriers, and ordering a third for itself, to allow the £3.6bn project to be completed within budget, according to senior Whitehall sources.

It would be the first such co-operative defence venture of its kind between the two countries.

The French government is considering ordering the British aircraft carrier in return for a share of the work on all three of the 60,000-tonne warships.

The move is also aimed at helping save thousands of shipbuilding jobs on the Clyde and at Rosyth, and at Southampton and Barrow-in-Furness in England. Industry and union officials fear workers could be laid off and expertise lost if construction were delayed by continued bickering between the Ministry of Defence and contractors over costs.

The two planned carriers, HMS Queen Elizabeth and HMS Prince of Wales, were originally scheduled to enter service in 2012 and 2015 respectively.

That timetable has already slipped by at least a year, leading to the threat of lay-offs at UK yards while they wait for the construction phase, hailed two years ago as "a new golden age on the Clyde", to begin.

A report on the details of a three-carrier deal, compiled jointly by the UK shipbuilding consortium and the French state-owned naval systems group, DCN, was submitted to both governments at the end of last month.

Bernie Hamilton, the Scottish regional officer for the shipbuilding union Amicus, said: "The vital thing is the timing of the orders. Shipyard employees have always been at the mercy of peaks and troughs in ordering policy."

Defence sources say the French are interested in the possibility of acquiring a state-of-the-art warship as a back-up for their ageing nuclear-powered carrier, the Charles de Gaulle, which has been plagued with problems.

A deal hinges on the share of the construction work for French yards in return for the savings that can be made from economies of scale by ordering three instead of two ships. The prospect has been made more attractive by the fact that Thales UK, a European de-fence company with strong French connections, designed the carriers and remains part of the consortium charged with building them.

The other partners are BAE's Scotstoun and Yoker yards in Glasgow and Cumbria, and the VT Group in Southampton.

The design calls for the 900ft carriers to be built in sections and assembled at Babcock-Rosyth's yard in Fife.

The UK-French talks, understood to be taking place at industrial, military and political levels, are working on the principle of French yards constructing the same sections for all three ships while UK companies build the rest of the vessels. The component parts of the French carrier would also be married up at Rosyth.

Admiral Sir Johnathon Band, RN fleet commander-in-chief, told The Herald this year acquisition of the warships to allow Britain to protect task forces without relying on the US was "crucial" to the navy's future.

Jean-Marie Poimbeauf, the DCN chief executive, said his group and Thales had drawn up a proposal recommending participation in the UK-French venture. "Our conclusion is that the British design is compatible with the operational needs of the French navy."

However, UK defence industry sources told The Herald the joint venture could also lead to further delays in the ordering process if the French insisted on last-minute technical changes. The MoD confirmed negotiations had taken place, but said no decisions had yet been taken.

FRANCE could end up building part of the Royal Navy's two super-carriers, and ordering a third for itself, to allow the £3.6bn project to be completed within budget, according to senior Whitehall sources.

It would be the first such co-operative defence venture of its kind between the two countries.

The French government is considering ordering the British aircraft carrier in return for a share of the work on all three of the 60,000-tonne warships.

The move is also aimed at helping save thousands of shipbuilding jobs on the Clyde and at Rosyth, and at Southampton and Barrow-in-Furness in England. Industry and union officials fear workers could be laid off and expertise lost if construction were delayed by continued bickering between the Ministry of Defence and contractors over costs.

The two planned carriers, HMS Queen Elizabeth and HMS Prince of Wales, were originally scheduled to enter service in 2012 and 2015 respectively.

That timetable has already slipped by at least a year, leading to the threat of lay-offs at UK yards while they wait for the construction phase, hailed two years ago as "a new golden age on the Clyde", to begin.

A report on the details of a three-carrier deal, compiled jointly by the UK shipbuilding consortium and the French state-owned naval systems group, DCN, was submitted to both governments at the end of last month.

Bernie Hamilton, the Scottish regional officer for the shipbuilding union Amicus, said: "The vital thing is the timing of the orders. Shipyard employees have always been at the mercy of peaks and troughs in ordering policy."

Defence sources say the French are interested in the possibility of acquiring a state-of-the-art warship as a back-up for their ageing nuclear-powered carrier, the Charles de Gaulle, which has been plagued with problems.

A deal hinges on the share of the construction work for French yards in return for the savings that can be made from economies of scale by ordering three instead of two ships. The prospect has been made more attractive by the fact that Thales UK, a European de-fence company with strong French connections, designed the carriers and remains part of the consortium charged with building them.

The other partners are BAE's Scotstoun and Yoker yards in Glasgow and Cumbria, and the VT Group in Southampton.

The design calls for the 900ft carriers to be built in sections and assembled at Babcock-Rosyth's yard in Fife.

The UK-French talks, understood to be taking place at industrial, military and political levels, are working on the principle of French yards constructing the same sections for all three ships while UK companies build the rest of the vessels. The component parts of the French carrier would also be married up at Rosyth.

Admiral Sir Johnathon Band, RN fleet commander-in-chief, told The Herald this year acquisition of the warships to allow Britain to protect task forces without relying on the US was "crucial" to the navy's future.

Jean-Marie Poimbeauf, the DCN chief executive, said his group and Thales had drawn up a proposal recommending participation in the UK-French venture. "Our conclusion is that the British design is compatible with the operational needs of the French navy."

However, UK defence industry sources told The Herald the joint venture could also lead to further delays in the ordering process if the French insisted on last-minute technical changes. The MoD confirmed negotiations had taken place, but said no decisions had yet been taken.

FRANCE could end up building part of the Royal Navy's two super-carriers, and ordering a third for itself, to allow the £3.6bn project to be completed within budget, according to senior Whitehall sources.

It would be the first such co-operative defence venture of its kind between the two countries.

The French government is considering ordering the British aircraft carrier in return for a share of the work on all three of the 60,000-tonne warships.

The move is also aimed at helping save thousands of shipbuilding jobs on the Clyde and at Rosyth, and at Southampton and Barrow-in-Furness in England. Industry and union officials fear workers could be laid off and expertise lost if construction were delayed by continued bickering between the Ministry of Defence and contractors over costs.

The two planned carriers, HMS Queen Elizabeth and HMS Prince of Wales, were originally scheduled to enter service in 2012 and 2015 respectively.

That timetable has already slipped by at least a year, leading to the threat of lay-offs at UK yards while they wait for the construction phase, hailed two years ago as "a new golden age on the Clyde", to begin.

A report on the details of a three-carrier deal, compiled jointly by the UK shipbuilding consortium and the French state-owned naval systems group, DCN, was submitted to both governments at the end of last month.

Bernie Hamilton, the Scottish regional officer for the shipbuilding union Amicus, said: "The vital thing is the timing of the orders. Shipyard employees have always been at the mercy of peaks and troughs in ordering policy."

Defence sources say the French are interested in the possibility of acquiring a state-of-the-art warship as a back-up for their ageing nuclear-powered carrier, the Charles de Gaulle, which has been plagued with problems.

A deal hinges on the share of the construction work for French yards in return for the savings that can be made from economies of scale by ordering three instead of two ships. The prospect has been made more attractive by the fact that Thales UK, a European de-fence company with strong French connections, designed the carriers and remains part of the consortium charged with building them.

The other partners are BAE's Scotstoun and Yoker yards in Glasgow and Cumbria, and the VT Group in Southampton.

The design calls for the 900ft carriers to be built in sections and assembled at Babcock-Rosyth's yard in Fife.

The UK-French talks, understood to be taking place at industrial, military and political levels, are working on the principle of French yards constructing the same sections for all three ships while UK companies build the rest of the vessels. The component parts of the French carrier would also be married up at Rosyth.

Admiral Sir Johnathon Band, RN fleet commander-in-chief, told The Herald this year acquisition of the warships to allow Britain to protect task forces without relying on the US was "crucial" to the navy's future.

Jean-Marie Poimbeauf, the DCN chief executive, said his group and Thales had drawn up a proposal recommending participation in the UK-French venture. "Our conclusion is that the British design is compatible with the operational needs of the French navy."

However, UK defence industry sources told The Herald the joint venture could also lead to further delays in the ordering process if the French insisted on last-minute technical changes. The MoD confirmed negotiations had taken place, but said no decisions had yet been taken

U.K.’s Next Carrier Faces Possible Delay

By PIERRE TRAN, PARIS

eDefenseNews

 

Britain’s first new 65,000-ton aircraft carrier may not sail by 2012, as planned, unless the alliance building the ship is consistent with the government’s industrial strategy to be completed later this year.

 

“Since January we have worked on the Alliance [industrial group] structure for these aircraft carriers,” Procurement Minister Lord Drayson said Oct. 25, under determined but polite questioning by James Arbuthnot, the chairman of the parliamentary Defense Committee and former top procurement official in the John Major government. “If we get this right, we will have a real opportunity to help the shipbuilding industry in this country to evolve in a direction which will be suitable for the long-term needs of this country and to be globally competitive.”

 

The Alliance industrial group, formed to build Britain’s two large carriers, could be the backbone of U.K. naval shipbuilding for the next 20 years, Drayson said.

 

Drayson said talks among Alliance partners BAE SYSTEMS, KBR, Thales UK, the Ministry of Defence and VT Group centered on who does what, specifically the contractual undertakings on cost, performance and schedule.

 

The carrier program will be a major part of the maritime strand in the government’s nascent defense industrial strategy, promised for Christmas. The completion of this review will allow the Alliance to be finalized and an investment decision — known in Britain as Main Gate — to be made in the first half of 2006, industry sources said. Main Gate would take the program into the development and production phase.

 

A VT Group spokesman said the first carrier still could enter service in 2012 if a Main Gate decision is taken in the first or second quarter of 2006 to allow shipbuilding to start in 2008 as planned. Much would depend on how smoothly the work went, he said.

 

“The new thing is the reliance on industrial strategy,” a second industry source said, adding that Drayson “has set himself a challenging task” with the Christmas deadline.

 

But once industrial strategy is set, whoever wins the largest parts of the carrier work likely will dominate British shipbuilding for two decades, the second source said. So Alliance partners have every incentive to bargain hard over their roles in the program — but if that process is prolonged, it could in turn delay a Main Gate decision.

 

BAE, Britain’s largest naval shipbuilder, is expected to snare the largest share of future work.

 

French Cooperation?

 

Drayson said he expected a decision from Paris in December about French cooperation on its planned PA2 carrier.

 

A British government official said there was strong political will to cooperate with France, but there was resistance from industry, which fears a greater level of complexity and wants to protect its own businesses.

 

“Companies stand to make more if there are two-plus-one ship rather than three ships,” so government has to push hard to make savings, the official said.

 

Drayson said industry has been charged with proposing an efficient, collaborative way of working to reduce costs, but has not yet produced its proposals.

 

Cooperation with France should not hurt the British program, Drayson added.

 

In Paris, a French government official said a decision could be made in December or early in January on cooperation with Britain.

 

The French and British defense ministers exchanged letters in early October, committing to giving industry a renewed push for detailed cooperation proposals, the French official said.

 

A French Navy official said the question increasingly being posed was whether the British government and industry were as committed to cooperation as France.

 

Among some French executives, Britain’s withdrawal from a joint frigate program with France and Italy in the 1990s is still a memory which rankles. Paris and Rome pursued the Horizon air defense frigate program bilaterally, which laid the basis for the FREMM multimission frigate, while London went on to build the Type 45 destroyer on its own.

 

The French Navy believes the British carrier design is 85 percent compatible with its needs, but the question is whether an efficient procurement organization can be created and whether both sides can agree on specifying and buying equipment.

 

The French Navy plans to fly the Rafale, while Britain has based its carrier needs around a short-takeoff-and-vertical-launch (STOVL) version of the Joint Combat Aircraft, the British designation for the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter. Although optimized for STOVL F-35, the ship can accommodate conventional carrier aircraft with the addition of catapults and arresting gear, ensuring flexibility. The decision whether to tailor the ship for STOVL F-35 or conventional aircraft will come early next year.

 

Drayson said that given the importance of the STOVL version to the U.S. Marine Corps, the plane was not at risk in the current U.S. congressional review of programs and there was no need for a contingency plan for the Royal Navy.

 

Drayson acknowledged that any changes in U.S. procurement on the F-35 could affect its role in the British carrier program. The Joint Combat Aircraft is due to enter service in 2014.

 

“We are watching it very closely indeed,” he said.