Hello!

[Byron]

I'm back playing Harpoon again, thanks to Tony, so I thought I'd join up.

 

Byron

[eeustice]

Welcome to the Forum.

I'm glad Tony took care of your problem.

There is a lot of useful information on the HarpGamer forum.

If you have any questions please don't hesitate to ask.

Happy Harpooning!

[TonyE]

Welcome Byron!  I took a quick look at torpedo drop points the other day and didn't find a super-easy way to have the air dropped torps drop right over the target but haven't given up yet.

[Byron]

17 hours ago, TonyE said:

Welcome Byron!  I took a quick look at torpedo drop points the other day and didn't find a super-easy way to have the air dropped torps drop right over the target but haven't given up yet.

It's a pet peeve. Harpoon has been like since my first version back in 93 when I had to make room in DOS. At least you fixed the bug where as soon as aircraft killed their target they'd head home. Ran across a weird one in the EC2000 Med battleset, HARM shooters opening fire at 130 miles and getting hits. I had to send the next group on patrol and watch until they got closer. 

 

One more for you: Is there a way to keep Harpoons from all wanting to hit the same dead ship? Even though you select one ship, hit it and it "sinks" the next group wants to hit the same ship.

 

[Tony]

Hey Byron

Their are some missiles that will stay locked onto the target you selected but many will kill the first thing it finds. A way to avoid a lot of this is Bearing only attacks ( B on the keyboard)  in which you can keep missiles from activating terminal guidance till it passes your first set of targets sending them deeper into the targeted task force to look for targets. This is not so simple as you have to find the reference points within the fleet to set as you activation point. It is pretty hit and miss unless the fleet is really scattered.

[eeustice]

Byron,

if you want to play around in the db you can remove the IR or the Terminal Guidance in the codes of the missile too.

You may still hit some ships that have already been hit but it won't be so bad.

When you launch your weapons and you get a bearing only message select no and that will stop bearing only launches of missiles from planes and ships.

[TonyE]

On 3/22/2021 at 3:40 PM, Byron said:

One more for you: Is there a way to keep Harpoons from all wanting to hit the same dead ship? Even though you select one ship, hit it and it "sinks" the next group wants to hit the same ship.

 

There isn't but I like where the other guys are going.  I believe we can tell the missile when to turn on its seeker and the game could calculate it so that it turns on the sensor once the missile passes the disabled ship.

[Tony]

As far as missiles are concerned I have notice some missiles rated as surf capable will hit the targeted ship. Some of the are Slam-er a land attack also variant of the harpoon and the Scalp EG of French design. If it has a surf attack flag it usually will attack the designated target assigned to it despite other ships. If it has sea attack flag  it will attack the first detected after activation. These are my findings.

[Byron]

Would never have thought that I would fire 20 Harpoons at three ships and only manage to sink one

 

[Tony]

I think almost all have look at that result and either stared at the screen or worse the first time it happened. Have you tried the BOA or B key yet? Another method would be to angle your approach and as units or unmask by other units launch a salvo at them. This us usually best against like you saw 3 or smaller groups.

 

 

[eeustice]

This is I have observed when playing the legacy battle sets that it takes to sink different classes of ships:

5-10 AO/AOE/AOR

15 -20 missiles to sink a FF/FFG 15-20

20-25 for DD/DDG

30 for CL/CG/CGN

40 for Battle Cruiser

50 for CV/CVN

One of the observations I found in the legacy battle sets is that once a target was selected the missiles launched will only attack their assigned targets unless shot down.

Playing scenarios using the official HC db, it depends a lot upon the codes of the missiles.

While creating my Fictional db I got a chance to play around with different Code mixtures for my missiles in the PE.

I found the best combination for Codes on Missiles for both Land Attack or Ship Attack are:

Small Missile

Land or Ship Attack

Internal Guidance

Semi-Active Guidance

Radar Guided

When launching Bearing Only missiles close to your TG's I found that you stand a chance on hitting your own ships.

I have had Air-to-Air missiles shoot down my Surface-to-Surface missiles attacking a Red TG if they loose their original targets (going bearing only).

Missiles hits can be affected by ESM/Chaff, Blip Enhanced AC, and Hit Percentage and of course shot down by ship or AC missiles

[donaldseadog]

In my "toolbox" export dll program thingee (that's been gathering dust in the downloads while I've been riding my vintage bikes) there are two functions I started to play with that begin to look at  dropping torpedos and changing missile targets. They kind of work but need a tidy up which I hope to get onto once I've re settled into my harpooning seat.

An air group can be directed to cover the exact postion of a sub (if known) and then report back so you can gauge if it's good to drop the torp on the targets head (hopefully it hasn't moved too far in the meantime or exact fix lost).

Missile units in flight can be assigned a target (or target re assigned). One hitch here is that it works with all missiles some of which aren't really missiles and some of which aren't in reality capable of target reassignment, so its up to the player not to cheat.

Any way it kind of shows that things could be done regarding these two issues but so far as the missile targettin I'm not sure how to best reflect reality as different missiles have different capability and I'm guessing that firing off a large number of missiles at a large number of close targets would likekly result in the biggest or nearest target copping the lot?

[Tony]

4 hours ago, donaldseadog said:

In my "toolbox" export dll program thingee (that's been gathering dust in the downloads while I've been riding my vintage bikes) there are two functions I started to play with that begin to look at  dropping torpedos and changing missile targets. They kind of work but need a tidy up which I hope to get onto once I've re settled into my harpooning seat.

An air group can be directed to cover the exact postion of a sub (if known) and then report back so you can gauge if it's good to drop the torp on the targets head (hopefully it hasn't moved too far in the meantime or exact fix lost).

Missile units in flight can be assigned a target (or target re assigned). One hitch here is that it works with all missiles some of which aren't really missiles and some of which aren't in reality capable of target reassignment, so its up to the player not to cheat.

Any way it kind of shows that things could be done regarding these two issues but so far as the missile targettin I'm not sure how to best reflect reality as different missiles have different capability and I'm guessing that firing off a large number of missiles at a large number of close targets would likekly result in the biggest or nearest target copping the lot?

Hey Donald, I am using you toolbox and still getting the hang of it. I have done it with harpoons switching from one TF target to the of another TF target with hits. I have used the other features but still getting the hang of it. I have also tried you SE launcher and like the functionality of it and have no problems. That with HC launcher make the game a lot simpler to set up and manage. The three tools at least for me make things a lot more simpler and less frustrating to returning and new to the game players. I agree it is not for all launched weapons as mid-course guidance would be required and I am really not sure if I used Slam-er with it or harpoons without it. I believe as you say would be a cheat and if you cheat on yourself then it is your call but if multiplayer is produced that might be an issue or a gentlemen's agreement without I would think a major overhaul. That is TonyE arena as I am just at best a tester who hands the pieces back to TonyE. Of course TonyE, you and Eustice have greatly reduce palm prints on my fore head a lot and I and grateful for the reduction in aspirin cost also.

 

[Byron]

Tony, I started using a multi-axis approach and that seems to have helped. I have one more CVBG to get through and I'll know then. I still have weirdness in that both with HARM and Harpoon attacks the scenario is letting me shoot from 125 miles out which gives you diddly for accuracy.

[Tony]

Byron though harpoons have terminal guidance and harms require a radiating source when if something changes before they reach that point or the radiating source is shut down they are like bullets. The longer the time it takes the get to the target the target the hit chance is reduce as many things can happen with just course or speed changes by the target. Mid course guidance can help with this but you also have electronic warfare too. Even some launched helicopter can with blip enhancers attract missiles to them instead of ships reducing actual hits on targets. So even in the world of missiles the closer you get before taking the shot will improve accuracy or in these case hit probability. The game takes in more considerations them most people know of. This is my simple opinion and the guys who put together then game could explain it much better as they have  study all the effects when putting the game together.