Sonar in 4.1

[pmaidhof]

Ah, it feels good to be back.

I have a Klasse 122, with its MF hull-mounted DSQS-21B sonar and its Lynx Mk88 helo with its HF AQS-18 Dipping Sonar.  Due to their respective MF and HF frequencies, while they can potentionally detect a Quiet Project 877 Kilo SS, neither would be unable to classify the target. So is going active the only way to classify a detected target with this types of sonar kits?  Is active classification complete, i.e. No equivalent 4.4.8 for active sonar?

Does a hull sonar only search one depth level.  Would a dipping sonar be any different?  I would think it would be at least close to omnidirectional.

Thanks

[CV32]

Two words: passive sonar, i.e. the passive mode of the same hull sonar.

[pmaidhof]

Let me rephrase. 

Since neither the ship's MF, the helo's dipping HF sonar cannot classify detections, they would need to go active in order to do so. 

That said, active gives precisely enough info on the detected target to dispose of need for 4.4.8?

 

 

[CV32]

5 hours ago, pmaidhof said:

Let me rephrase.  Since neither the ship's MF, the helo's dipping HF sonar cannot classify detections, they would need to go active in order to do so. That said, active gives precisely enough info on the detected target to dispose of need for 4.4.8?

Active sonar is not going to provide you with a target classification.

And IIRC, its not that passive classification with an MF or HF sonar is impossible, but rather that the base classification probability against Quiet targets is zero. (Though I acknowledge that's how the base classification probability table seems to read.)

I think that is just the starting point. Modifiers may then apply.

For example, detections across depth layers are subject to 0.5x range modifier.

(Its been quite a while since I looked at any of this stuff.)

[pmaidhof]

Ok, presuming  active sonar would not give a classification, which I tend to agree, it would give bearing and speed of that contact?

Back to passive, under the base classification probability chart, in the footer it says A "-" means classification in not possible with this sonar. 

Thanks for engaging on this. I am trying to better understand this sonar subject with the realm of H4.1

Pete

[CV32]

13 hours ago, pmaidhof said:

Ok, presuming  active sonar would not give a classification, which I tend to agree, it would give bearing and speed of that contact?

Yes.

13 hours ago, pmaidhof said:

Back to passive, under the base classification probability chart, in the footer it says A "-" means classification in not possible with this sonar.

Yeah, that's why I said that's how the table appears to read. Maybe it is intended that you do not proceed further than that.

Maybe bounce an email off Larry or Chris?

[CV32]

A response from Chris confirms that the HF sonar is deemed incapable of a passive classification. It's not necessarily impossible but so difficult to reach into the lower band frequencies, where passive classification tends to reside, that it makes better sense as a game rule.

[pmaidhof]

Thanks Brad,

i had sent an email with the question to the Admiralty email of the ATG site. No response just yet. 

 

Game continues...

 

[pmaidhof]

I had the ASW helos react by rolling a d8 for direction and d6 for distance. Inspiration from Advanced Squad Leader Sniper direction and distance. Gave them a groping in the dark kind of representation on my graph paper. 

[pmaidhof]

How far down, or possibly up, does a hull mounted sonar "view"?  

Can a surface platform's sonar search into an Intermediate I depth?  Are there limitations?  

Can you point to the rule that discusses it?

Thanks

[CV32]

I forget the specific rule but the applicable modifier, 0.5x range per layer of depth, is on the same page as the passive classification table. 

[pmaidhof]

Did continue last night, replotted the bigger 2 Square/inch, one square = 1nm = 2,000 yards. 

It was pretty simplistic, getting my reps in. 

Worked through baffles, at least for bow mounted sonar. After three tactical turns the sub, while not/unable to classify, did get a Good TMA and fired to torpedoes at the AE. While one missed, the other struck home inflicting four critical hits, the SW Weapons Mount, two Flooding and one CIC/Bridge. Subsequent die rolls confirmed minor flooding for both Flood results 2% each.  The ship will continue moving on its current course for 6 tactical turns. 

Here is the image just before the attack.