Can't split group

[czo79]

Hello,

Hmm. I'm rapidly becoming the newbie who fills up the board with questions.

So I'm playing retreat in the GIUK set. Managed to whip the Soviet north cape air assets, with only a handful of fighters lost. Now I'm getting ready to run the GIUK gauntlet of subs. I've attached all my land based ASW air assets to the air base at Vagar in the Faroes. Since it won't let me set the range rings to larger than 255 miles, this is the only base with which I can get really good coverage of the GUIK gap. So my P3s and Nimrods are flying out of other bases, because they can't land at the short runway at Vagar. I put them in Vagars formation so they actually auto conduct ASW searches. But then I have to manually split them off the group and send them back to their bases when it is time to refuel. Unfortunately, most of the time I can't get them to split from the Vagar group. I go into the menu, split them, hit ok, and +90% of the time, nothing happens. Once or twice they have actually split and I get the "would you like to set a course for this group" popup. I haven't been able to figure out what made it work those times. I haven't ever encountered this problem splitting other groups from formations. I wonder if it is something to do with them not being able to land there. But I've done this once or twice in other scenarios w/o problem. Anyways, many are about to run out of fuel, and I can't split them to send them back to their bases. Anyone have any suggestions on what could be the problem? Am I doing something wrong?

thanks,

Czo

[TonyE]

I don't think you are doing anything wrong (well, past joining planes from one group to another, that I consider wrong). Can you zip a saved game and attach it to a reply here with instructions on which group to try to split planes from?

 

Thanks

 

Tony

[wombat1417]

I think it's easier to launch a patrol to the area you want and input your own search pattern. That way, you will be told when the aircraft has no movement orders when the pattern runs out of legs, and you'll get the Bingo fuel-RTB warning from the ASA.

[Warhorse64]

I think it's easier to launch a patrol to the area you want and input your own search pattern. That way, you will be told when the aircraft has no movement orders when the pattern runs out of legs, and you'll get the Bingo fuel-RTB warning from the ASA.

 

That doesn't drop sonobuoys automatically, unfortunately ...

[donaldseadog]

Hello,

Hmm. I'm rapidly becoming the newbie who fills up the board with questions.

So I'm playing retreat in the GIUK set. Managed to whip the Soviet north cape air assets, with only a handful of fighters lost. Now I'm getting ready to run the GIUK gauntlet of subs. I've attached all my land based ASW air assets to the air base at Vagar in the Faroes. Since it won't let me set the range rings to larger than 255 miles, this is the only base with which I can get really good coverage of the GUIK gap. So my P3s and Nimrods are flying out of other bases, because they can't land at the short runway at Vagar. I put them in Vagars formation so they actually auto conduct ASW searches. But then I have to manually split them off the group and send them back to their bases when it is time to refuel. Unfortunately, most of the time I can't get them to split from the Vagar group. I go into the menu, split them, hit ok, and +90% of the time, nothing happens. Once or twice they have actually split and I get the "would you like to set a course for this group" popup. I haven't been able to figure out what made it work those times. I haven't ever encountered this problem splitting other groups from formations. I wonder if it is something to do with them not being able to land there. But I've done this once or twice in other scenarios w/o problem. Anyways, many are about to run out of fuel, and I can't split them to send them back to their bases. Anyone have any suggestions on what could be the problem? Am I doing something wrong?

thanks,

Czo

If the planes are close to bingo (and they'll be calculating their fuel relative to Vagar even though they know they can't land there) you won't be able to split them off. I don't know how close to bingo you have to go before you can't split them, maybe it isn't '0' but something a bit more for safety reasons.

While putting planes in a formation about a base at which they can't land is a dodgy practice (as others have said) I'll admit I do it sometimes and if I do I make a conservative calculation of when I need to split them off to reach their home base and put a staff reminder (F10 keyboard command) in the system.

If you are getting to the stage where they won't split off, my guess is you are too late to get them home in any case.

While not the right place to mention, it would maybe be nice if we could put a tanker in the formation too (even if it can't land) and get an automatic refuel.

Don

[czo79]

Oh man, time to put my money where my mouth is. I hope this works! I've managed to get one group to split, and it works with other formations, but I've tried dozens of times with the problematic one and except for that one time it hasn't worked. So they are planes attached to the formation at Vagar in the Faroes. I think most of the Nimrods have already crashed, but there are some P-3s left. But try as I might I can't seem to split them. I'll upload a save.

Hmmm. Ok, that doesn't work. I tried to attach it, got a warning that "upload failed. You are not permitted to upload this type of file". Is it because I'm a newbie? I tried changing the filename and extension in case it was that, still didn't work. Perhaps it requires the files be compressed in some kind of archive format?

thanks,

Czo

[wombat1417]

I think it's easier to launch a patrol to the area you want and input your own search pattern. That way, you will be told when the aircraft has no movement orders when the pattern runs out of legs, and you'll get the Bingo fuel-RTB warning from the ASA.

 

That doesn't drop sonobuoys automatically, unfortunately ...

 

I can usually find the time to pop them out with "."

[czo79]

But perhaps it doesn't matter. Whatever the problem was, when I closed that game to check some of my saved files (in order to find the right one to post) and then reopened that game, it started allowing me to split groups at will, even if they were at (or under) bingo fuel. Perhaps the game just got grumpy at being left running for many days.

Czo

[czo79]

Bizarre. Problems back. Tried saving and closing game, reopening save, it doesn't work now. If I can figure out how to post a save file, I'll try posting it.

Czo

[donaldseadog]

Oh man, time to put my money where my mouth is. I hope this works! I've managed to get one group to split, and it works with other formations, but I've tried dozens of times with the problematic one and except for that one time it hasn't worked. So they are planes attached to the formation at Vagar in the Faroes. I think most of the Nimrods have already crashed, but there are some P-3s left. But try as I might I can't seem to split them. I'll upload a save.

Hmmm. Ok, that doesn't work. I tried to attach it, got a warning that "upload failed. You are not permitted to upload this type of file". Is it because I'm a newbie? I tried changing the filename and extension in case it was that, still didn't work. Perhaps it requires the files be compressed in some kind of archive format?

thanks,

Czo

Spot on, use a 'zip' package.

[VictorInThePacific]

A couple of comments that have nothing to do with the original question.

 

1) Assigning a plane to a formation patrol at a base where it doesn't belong for any reason ... this cannot be considered "wrong" in any sense. In real life, you could always give that plane orders to patrol a particular area. In Harpoon, you are only using this technique to allow an automatic routine to take care of the machanics of patrolling, and there is no routine that allows you to patrol a general area, unless there is a base or ship nearby, so you are simply using the base as a convenient reference point.

 

2) Having said that, bear in mind that an Orion or similar plane flies for a very long time, much longer than it takes to use up all its sonobuoys in a formation patrol. So you probably only have about 2 hours of meaningful patrol in any case. 1 hour to drop buoys, and 1 hour until they die.

[TEPonta]

A P-3 carries a loadout of at least 84 buoys, if I remember correctly from my days as an ASAC. A 5-6-5 Distro field, which is one of the more popular patterns, requires 16 buoys to cover a fairly large area. I'm not sure how the program handles this, but I don't remember ever working with a P-3 that ran short of buoys.

 

Buddha

[VictorInThePacific]

A P-3 carries a loadout of at least 84 buoys, if I remember correctly from my days as an ASAC. A 5-6-5 Distro field, which is one of the more popular patterns, requires 16 buoys to cover a fairly large area. I'm not sure how the program handles this, but I don't remember ever working with a P-3 that ran short of buoys.

 

Buddha

 

Well, I could debate this point, based on how large an area you want to search, but it occurs to me that I should really be asking you questions based on your experience.

 

1) I guess that all your experiences would qualify as peacetime ones?

2) Did you go out to locate specific contacts or for more general reasons?

3) Did you actually find things?

 

Incidentally, I just googled "He who beats his swords into plowshares shall forever plow the fields of he who did not." Looks like you're famous.

[TEPonta]

A P-3 carries a loadout of at least 84 buoys, if I remember correctly from my days as an ASAC. A 5-6-5 Distro field, which is one of the more popular patterns, requires 16 buoys to cover a fairly large area. I'm not sure how the program handles this, but I don't remember ever working with a P-3 that ran short of buoys.

 

Buddha

 

Well, I could debate this point, based on how large an area you want to search, but it occurs to me that I should really be asking you questions based on your experience.

 

1) I guess that all your experiences would qualify as peacetime ones?

2) Did you go out to locate specific contacts or for more general reasons?

3) Did you actually find things?

 

Incidentally, I just googled "He who beats his swords into plowshares shall forever plow the fields of he who did not." Looks like you're famous.

 

1) Peacetime

2) We normally used the P-3 patrols when intel indicated a possible contact of interest in an area. Where the info came from was above my level. We also used it to sanitize the area the BG was going to be transitting. I just took control of the aircraft and sent it where I was told to.

3) Sometimes we found the target, sometimes we didn't.

 

My old boss in the KSA, a retired Four Striper, had the quote on his desk, and I borrowed it from him. I'm not sure where he got it, but it sounds pretty accurate to me.

 

Buddha

[VictorInThePacific]

2) We normally used the P-3 patrols when intel indicated a possible contact of interest in an area. Where the info came from was above my level. We also used it to sanitize the area the BG was going to be transitting. I just took control of the aircraft and sent it where I was told to.

3) Sometimes we found the target, sometimes we didn't.

 

My old boss in the KSA, a retired Four Striper, ...

 

Continuing ...

 

So you were not on the actual plane? But in continuous contact?

 

The plane is dropping a field of 16 buoys, covering 32 sq. miles, or perhaps 60-odd?

 

Can you estimate the found/not found proportion?

 

KSA = Kingdom of Saudi Arabia? Kosher Supervision of America?