Falklands 2015/2020

[CV32]

You can move the position of any Installation just as easily as you would a surface ship group or land unit.

 

In fact, its often necessary when working with the SE or the BattleSet Builder because the real life geo coordinates rarely exactly match the position on the game maps.

 

I never thought of trying the Americas or South America DB, probably should as there will be a lot more Argie platforms.

 

Oh, I was pretty sure you had.

 

Had a look at the HCDA Database, a lot of Argentine Platforms in there!

[chrism_scotland]

You can move the position of any Installation just as easily as you would a surface ship group or land unit.

 

In fact, its often necessary when working with the SE or the BattleSet Builder because the real life geo coordinates rarely exactly match the position on the game maps.

 

I never thought of trying the Americas or South America DB, probably should as there will be a lot more Argie platforms.

 

Oh, I was pretty sure you had.

 

Had a look at the HCDA Database, a lot of Argentine Platforms in there!

 

Actually I stand corrected, I did look at the Americas Database!!!!

[chrism_scotland]

Still working on this, piecing together something a bit more exciting involving the Brazilians and some hypothetical "modernised" Argentine Air Force Aircraft in the shape of a few Rafale M's, the Argentine forces are pretty awful now and even a watered down British Task Force with HMS Ocean a couple of SSN's and a mix of Type 45 / 42 / 23 destroyers / frigates would seem to be able to destroy most of the Argentine Navy.

So I'm thinking about something around Oil being found off the Falklands and Argentina and Brazil joining forces to claim the Oil for "South America", the Argentine Navy Rafale M's purchased from France as part of a deal to convince Argentina to order new French Warships due in the next decade.

The Rafale M's could operate off the Brazilian Carrier Sau Paulo (former Foch) creating a true threat to the weakened British Task Force comprising HMS Illustrious, HMS Ark Royal and a smattering of other Surface Combatants along with 12 Harrier GR9 Aircraft hurriedly rushed back into service.

 

HMS Ambush and HMS Artful along with HMS Talent provide submarine support for Anti-Shipping and Land Attack capability.

 

Will keep you's updated, hoping to have a first try ready next week!

[CV32]

You might find some useful fodder for your Argentine/Brazilian cooperation in this news report (in Portuguese), where the Royal Navy's River class patrol ship HMS Clyde (on Falklands patrol duty) was barred entry to port at Rio on or about 8 January.

 

Uruguay did likewise with HMS Gloucester in September.

[broncepulido]

Just it time when I was thinking on post the same news report (in French):

http://www.meretmarine.com/article.cfm?id=115050

[broncepulido]

That is the original news report (in Spanish), Clarin (the Spanish word for Clarion) is a reputed Argentine newspaper, the situation is something hotter than when we begin this post thread:

http://www.clarin.com/politica/Brasil-proh..._404959643.html

 

Some perhaps trascendent highlights about the article:

The aforementionated HMS Gloucester and at least another British warship interdicted enter in another time

Desde Uruguay, ya se les ha prohibido dos veces a barcos de guerra británicos atracar en el puerto de Montevideo, en solidaridad con el reclamo argentino.

 

An announcement about a reinforced control by the Argentine Navy of the legal permits to operate from or to the Islands. In the quote, the legal concept expressed is more or less "the Argentine government demands a special permission to all the ships that should sail in his national waters, as the waters of the Falklands/Malvinas are considered to be national waters, the Argentine government will demand this permission to all the ships that should sail along waters of the Islands, and the Argentine Navy will try to make to fulfill such requisite".

A su vez, se sabe que la Armada argentina busca cumplir a rajatabla el decreto presidencial 256 de febrero de 2010, que exige un permiso especial del Gobierno para todos aquellos buques que operen en aguas nacionales, y por lo tanto las de Malvinas, tal como figura en la Constitución.

 

From the next Juny 2011, the sea container transport between Falklands and Rio Grande (Brazil) will be interrupted. The director of the company, Hamish Wylie, denounced before the island press to be "convinced" that it owed to “pressures“ on his associates so that the fishing industry of the archipelago “could not develop in the future".

Por otra parte, en lo que desde Malvinas se definió como un “serio” y “preocupante” golpe a la economía de las islas, se supo también que el servicio de transporte de containers que la South American Atlantic Services LTD (SAAS) cubre desde Malvinas a Río Grande, en Brasil, su crucial escala sudamericana, en su viaje hacia el mercado internacional, quedará suspendido a partir de junio. Ayer, uno de los directores de la compañía, Hamish Wylie, denunció ante la prensa isleña estar “convencido” de que ello se debía a “presiones” sobre sus socios para que la industria pesquera del archipiélago “no pueda desarrollarse en el futuro”.

 

Also, it there joined the decision of the Union of South American Nations, in November of prohibiting to enter in his ports ships with the “illegal flag” of Malvinas (I don't known the Falklands flag. I suppose is a case similar to the Gibraltar flag), according to the declaration text.

A ello se sumó la decisión de la Unión de Naciones Sudamericanas, en noviembre de prohibir el atraco de barcos en sus puertos con la “bandera ilegal” de Malvinas, según el textual de la declaración.

 

The text of the declaration about the flag, result of the Georgetown, Guyana, meeting at 26 November 2010 (previously unknown to me), in:

http://www.ba.unibo.it/NR/rdonlyres/44C36C...4/ArtUnasur.pdf

 

“the UNASUR member states promise to adopt, in accordance with

international law and his respective internal legislations, all the measurements

capable of to be regulated to prevent the access to his ports of

ships that hoist the illegal flag of the Falkland Islands”. The Argentinian Foreing Minister, Héctor Timerman, emphasized that for the first time is used the term of “illegal flag” and, with this declaration, the countries of the block “commit themselves in the frame

of the current international agreements, to inform the Argentine government on

those ships or naval crafts with courses that include the Falkland Islands,

Georgias of the South and Sándwich of the South with charges destined for the illegal hydrocarbon and/or mining activities in the Argentine continental shelf and of

this way, to prepare or to prevent these activities from being consolidated”.

“los estados miembros de UNASUR se comprometen a adoptar, de conformidad con el

derecho internacional y sus respectivas legislaciones internas, todas las medidas

susceptibles de ser reglamentadas para impedir el ingreso a sus puertos de los

buques que enarbolen la bandera ilegal de las Islas Malvinas”. El canciller

argentino, Héctor Timerman, destacó que por primera vez se habló de “bandera

ilegal” y, con esta declaración, los países del bloque “se comprometen en el marco

de los acuerdos internacionales vigentes, a informar al gobierno argentino sobre

aquellos buques o artefactos navales con derroteros que incluyan las Islas Malvinas,

Georgias del Sur y Sándwich del Sur con cargas destinadas a las actividades hidrocarburíferas y/o mineras ilegales en la plataforma continental argentina y de

este modo, prevenir o evitar que estas actividades se consoliden”

[CV32]

Brazil's latest move does seem to fly in the face of the Defence Cooperation Treaty that they signed with the UK when HMS Ocean was in Rio in September.

[JRyan]

This sounds like a great Idea guys. One possibility is to see what the addition of at least a moderate acquisition by the Argentinians of 'Modern Stuff' could influence the outcome. Right now Argentina is a basket case, but in some respects so is the UK. They want to cut defense spending to the bone.

 

By all means, the Harpoon portion of this is fun, but the political ramifications are much more.

 

Carry on!

 

Ethan

 

EDIT: We for got the Russians......What if they ......????

[chrism_scotland]

This sounds like a great Idea guys. One possibility is to see what the addition of at least a moderate acquisition by the Argentinians of 'Modern Stuff' could influence the outcome. Right now Argentina is a basket case, but in some respects so is the UK. They want to cut defense spending to the bone.

 

By all means, the Harpoon portion of this is fun, but the political ramifications are much more.

 

Carry on!

 

Ethan

 

EDIT: We for got the Russians......What if they ......????

 

Russian involvement is something I'd thought about, perhaps not directly but Russian Equipment being sold to Argentina or even Venezuela,

[broncepulido]

More stuff, Presidential change in Brazil (in French):

http://www.meretmarine.com/article.cfm?id=115156

In short, the new Brazilian President Dilma Roussef (of the same politic party than the former President Luiz Ignazio Lula da Silva) sembles to have her own ideas about defence.

The previous President had a some clear ideas on defense, as purchase the Rafale fighter, support the local industry and create a fleet of SSN to protect the sea oil fields.

The new Presidente apparently wants to re-think all the programs, in particular the Rafale purchase (the other contenders were Super Hornet and Gripen), the purchase of five 5000 tons frigates (previouly probably FREMMs), five 1800 tons OPVs (Probably Gowind), and one AOR (probably type Brave).

[CV32]

... the purchase of five 5000 tons frigates (previouly probably FREMMs), five 1800 tons OPVs (Probably Gowind), and one AOR (probably type Brave).

 

There was talk of these being British types, including Type 26 frigates, but Brazil's latest political moves do not seem to go hand in hand with military cooperation with the UK.

[JRyan]

There was talk of these being British types, including Type 26 frigates, but Brazil's latest political moves do not seem to go hand in hand with military cooperation with the UK.

 

 

Isn't that the truth, we have come a long way since the 80's have we not? Back then it was only Cuba and Nicaragua that we worried about...

[broncepulido]

More clear things referenced today (Clear for all of us, but not for the UK Government scrapping the carriers):

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/Rapid-...11-03-04-06790/

Argentina’s defense budget is projected to grow at a robust 15.9% annual growth rate, reaching $5.5 billion by 2015, according to iCD Research.

http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/2011...t-Opportunities

 

Incidentally, some other local politics. Some days ago, another hint about the politics and moral integrity of the Argentine government, the 2010 Nobel Prize in Literature Mario Vargas Llosa, vetoed in a book fair early at the government instance, clearly Vargas Llosa is not pro-Chavez:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mario_Vargas_Llosa

He was awarded the 2010 Nobel Prize in Literature "for his cartography of structures of power and his trenchant images of the individual's resistance, revolt, and defeat".

http://www.livinginperu.com/news/14310

Horacio González, director of Argentina’s national library, stated that the president had called him to express her wish that the Peruvian author be free to give his inaugural speech, after the scandal provoked by the group of academicians led by González tried to veto his presence.