donaldseadog

ASW-2 and 3 are dropping buoys and dipping sonar (when available) in group formation but not MCM nor Nuke.

I've tried a few chopper loadouts, ASW, ASW-LR, ASW-2 and MCM. When they are sent out alone on independant patrol (so F6 'Launch' - type 'Patrol') all fly at low alt. BUT when I put them in group formation patrol (F4) the MCM fly at mediium, the other three at low. I better look for some ASW-3 and try them? I found an ASW-3 (and for giggles a Nuke). ASW-3 flew both patrols (Stand alone and group formation) at low altband and Nuke guy did group formation patrol at medium (AEW patrol in the unit info window) and low alt for stand alone. I've no idea where I'm going with this, but it's interesting

At it again tonight and I see Enrique as you say in group formation the MCM mission choppers fly at medium altBand To make it easier to get contacts I've added NOise Makers. I've not used them before, they are certainly detected further out. I've tried some (soviet) choppers with an ASW loadout utilising DC, so small weapon range, and they seem to behave same as the mcm choppers in that if directed to attack out of weapon range they will fly past known higer unit number mines to attack the lowest unit number mine, but if within range of a mine at time they are ordered to attack they will attack that (those) mines. So I'm thinking it's not an 'MCM' thing. II'll start looking at the mission - loadout patrol altband thing.

A little more work last night, what I saw was that if the MCM chopper was right over a mine unit that had an exact fix, it would attack it, otherwise it went for the lowest unit number mine. Now I wonder if the difference also relates to the range of the weapon (7 nm torpedo, 1/2 nm EOD). Next I might put in the mix a chopper with depth charge, so that will be ASW mission but very short range weapon.

I've been playing tonight with choppers hunting sea mines. Usually done using MCM specific choppers there has been an observed (by at least a couple of us) possible flaw if there are multiple mines detected then the choppers attck them in target unit number order, not closest first. Fooling around a bit I'm guessing that if the chopper has a mission type MCM then it will do this, but if you add to the chopper group an ASW mission chopper, or use an ASW mission chopper alone (depth charge seem a reasonable sim) (you can see the mission type in the unit information window (click on the chopper in the unit window)) then you get attack sequence in order of proximity (more desirable). Has any one else noticed this sort of thing and got thoughts on it? Don

An update to correct a crash when in 'Attack' page and select a unit that belonged to a group no longer existing. Also added more unit info in surface/sub page: hydro noise levels, torpedo target types, are mounts damged, max depth of subs.

Thinking about hit probability is for me like walking in a mine field. Once you get down to those low Ph No matter how many sticks you throw it is unlikely to do any good. If you think two missile with Ph of 50%, you don't have a 100% prob of hit. From memory the correct calculatin is to work out the prob of a miss for each then calculate as exponential of the number of missile to get the prob of all missing, then the flip of that is the prob of a hit. Thus for a 50% Ph and 2 missile the prob of all missing is .5 x .5 = .25, meaning 75% prob of a hit? But I can easy be wrong as it a little while since I did this math.

I'll look at doing that. I had an interesting test last night, a 'friendly' USA ssn pair acting as listening enemy and four RAN ships, DDG and FFG in formation. Using my analysis tool AIWindow I watched the change in degree of contact quality by the enemy as I moved ship station with and without restricting its speed (again using tool to restrict max speed. Keeping ship speed below 'cruise' preferably to about 15 kts. made a big difference to enemy getting exact fix as against approx position (test started with approx position known of the test ship changing station. I'm thinking of something where the max speed for station change is restricted to double the current group speed. I have a vague recollection that ships in formation had a restricted speed when group was at 'creep' I'll check that out tonight. (edit) PS, I'm thinking also same thing for ASW station doing sprint and drift, the sprint maybe is too fast?

My focus at the moment is the acoustic (water, sonar) noise created by surface units when group formation is changed. In the current workings of HC when you move a surface unit to a new group formation location (station) it will usually proceed at full speed and thus be very noisy and thus more easily detected by enemy submarines. My usual practice has been if I suspect any likely hood of enemy subs within the region I will go into the unit window and select changing of station units and limit their speed, limiting group speed also if needed to allow the station change to occur in reasonable time. What do others do or think about this situation. I am contemplating looking at a switched speed limiter function for units in a group within my Toolbox add-on and thinking about the 'rules' I would use.

New wishes, initiate F1 Attack of an enemy by selecting a unit (can be yellow approx fix) from the unit window, and a fine move of the focus of the group and especcially unit windows

These things are pretty cool: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K9_Thunder

Yes it is curious. I think some SAM seem to be not able to be aimed at a surface target but if it happens it can hit one. I have very occasionally seen it I think it is only in rare situation it can happen and probably was never intended to. But in some ways it is good to my mind, eg you aim at a helo that is landing, if it lands before SAM hits (and therefore in HC it disappears) then the missile should probably still proceed to the landing point and impact? I think I've seen that happen.

Update, this time I did get some debug point defense report. I think we actually got one It's an interesting situation, it seems the sm-2s fired at an asroc that delivers it's torpedo before intercept (so the asroc is still active but now a torpedo) keep cruising and looking for a target but if they are targeting say a harpoon unit that is downed then the SAMs usually (if I remember correctly) turn to dust.

I had an interesting thing happen last night. The situation is two medium size enemy surface groups approaching, and submarines. Blue side fired a number of rounds of ASROC at subs intermediate the two main group bodies. The Red fired SAM (SM-2s?) at the ASROCs but the ASROCs delivered their loads before SAM intercept and the SAM kept going to hit one of the Blue ships. All of that I think is very good behaviour. The ship hit (and surrounding ships in the group) appeared to make no defensive move against the incoming missiles, not even the usual point defense got x of 'em, although they did warn 'in coming missiles you should fire up the radar' type message. . Has anyone else seen this and what do you think?

I've been keeping an eye on this in similar scenario to where I seemed to have the issue, and it's not happened again so far as I've noticed, but I haven't setup any good test.

I could see the time you put into it Enrique. Getting the best platforms for the date, very hard. Using the Melbourne was clever. I can never be as methodical as you in research, one of the reasons I like your scenarios, they are like a time machine

It's been a long time since I timed out with no side meeting minimums VCs. Quite a good fun little scenario Broncepulido, I'll keep better eye on my AA screen next go (helo got my best sub as Kidd ran out of forward SAMs)

View File King1ASuW This scenario is the second in a series in which some of the Naval Gun weapon types newly developed or being investigated are at you disposal in a large scale exercise between AUKUS members USA (Red side) and combined AU, UK and guest NZ (Blue side). Here the Blue side has HMAS Hobart played by an Indian type 15B DDG that includes a 127/64 Oto LW mount with extended range and guided Vulcano weapons. Compare this with the realistic Hobart included in scenario #1 of the King Series (KingASW) Submitter donaldseadog Submitted 06/01/2024 Category WestPac  

KingASW View File What are the future weapons of choice for screening a surface group from enemy surface and submarine attack? Some years back it was thought that the humble naval gun was an antique, but with ever improving missile and area AA defenses new high technology artillery rounds are being studied and developed for both anti surface and subsurface attack. This scenario is is intended to be the benchmark (current equipment) in a series in which some of the weapon types newly developed or being investigated are at you disposal in a large scale exercise between AUKUS members USA (Red side) and combined AU, UK and guest NZ (Blue side). HMAS Perth (39) forms the centre piece of the Blue side, along with UK Astute class SSN Arafura (Hypothetical RAN AUKUS unit) you should be able to get the upper hand over the American buddies playing Red. Submitter donaldseadog Submitted 06/01/2024 Category WestPac  

Another update (I should have done them both at once ) In the air formation page a new patrol type being EW which is similar to AEW but the radar and thus EW emission is on for 2 1/2 mins every 3. A new patrol type: by giving the group a multi leg course with no orders other than in the last leg (such as Land), then setting the patrol size to zero when the patrol type button (ASW, CAP etc) is pressed the radar and speed/alt setting get populated into each leg of the course. This is most useful in setting up an ASW barrier.

I got the same result. The procedure to reproduce appears to be: Launch a group with atleast 2 units each unit of at least 2 plane. After they are formed up either; 1/ order group land then split the group into two groups each of one unit or at least 2 planes or 2/ split group and order to land at least the original group (now a single unit or more than 1 plane) THEN at a point after the first plane of the original group has landed, but not the complete group, save the game. When the game is opened the original group will NOT continue to land planes. The group created by the split doesn't seem to be effected, it does'nt seem to matter what order the RTB and group split orders are executed. I tested using Erics files as a start and used GE 2024.002

^^^ done for next version, now working on patrols applied to a current course (ie, the player sets the course 'turn points' and sortie speed/alt, the tool inserts loiter/hover and altband for asw and temporary radar for CAP and AEW/EW

A new version has been just uploaded, just a small refinement to the ASW search pattern so the group will conduct the ASW search at vlow altband if the group has no non helo units that aren't NOE equipped. This helps if trying to screen for subs close to an enemy AA screen. With encouragement I could do something similar for vhigh capable aircraft given an AEW patrol