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Posts posted by donaldseadog
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Thanks heaps for this Patrick, I loved the way the lack of high performers meant a need to put care and thought into the tactics, and for me a need to adapt to how my fortunes (or otherwise) came to play.
I'm looking forward to giving a possible future red side version a run
Don
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+++SPOILER ALERT+++
I normally try to play at as fast a time acceleration as I can get away with, so spending 5 hrs actual time to knock over only about 20 game time shows that I was kept on my toes.
My first self assigned task was to set up an asw cordon of my surface group, get some eyes and ears into the sky from land and sea, station the IFR tanker somewhere I thought safe (west of my surface group and with a single escort) then knock out the recce ability from out of the captured Aman base to the north.
My main eyes and ears consisted of pairs of my best Harriers patrolling to my general east (I considered my most likely source of competent air attacks) and F16 from my land base to the west. The Sea Apache roamed about closer to the ships but in the long term proved to be possibly my best units at picking up trouble, and certainly in a pack of 6 each with two harpoon very competent aggressors.
With two submarines already generally one each to the north and south I sent them off on their own patrols.
To deal with the Oman base Muscat the harrier sead took off once I judged the IFR tanker would be on a suitable station for their return when they'd be needing a bit of a drink. After the sead had dealt with the radar a couple of precision attack bombers did enough damage that my intel men said no aircraft were likely operational, so I let them be.
In the meantime my aim-120s toted by the few latest Harriers had taken care of some Bears, Badgers, Mig23s and Mirage. I'd also found to the east some small fry surface groups comprising frigates and PTboats letting my harriers clean them up initially with standoff Mavericks until my chief bosun let me know that we needed to not waste the limited supply, so minor cleanup was with guided bombs.
It became clear that the numerous fighter and attack aircraft thought to be stationed at Goa were to be a continuous problem, so we expended in two salvos most of our long range cruise missiles to 'neutralise' this threat.
It was a while before the real task came to hand. To the south I finally detected a surface group shortly turning out to be two groups in close company, a carrier, large escorts and a number of supply ships and landing ships, a full invasion force. This is where my luck, or perhaps good management, came undone to a degree. Trying to find a way in with low flying harriers armed with arm and standoff mavericks lost me an uncomfortable number of planes until we formulated a new tactic, nibbling away at their ASW helos and Forger vtol fighters when ever we could, occasionally loosing planes to the Forger but providing a clear path for our closing subs to enter.
Two separate vollies of cruise missiles from the submarines and main surface group in synchronis and carefully targting the main AAW escorts made life easier for a combined effort of Sea Apache harpoon mass attacks and then the one by one slaughter at the hands of sub launched torpedoes.
Despite the early loses we made good ..
Taking out their carrier and the annoying effective Forger made the final goal in sight
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On 1/18/2025 at 6:20 PM, Geoaegis said:
Greetings. Back into Harpoon. Looks like lots of changes since I last engaged.
Working to develop a better understanding of scenario engagement planning. Is there a way to view the orders each platform has in a scenario? I found where I can edit orders but not view what they are before I edit the order. For example, a missile base has a series of 5 attack orders. I can edit the target of each order but I cannot tell when the order is to be carried out.
Thanks in advance.
Geo
I think also, from memory, if it is a patrol you can't see where the patrol is located nor edit it's position. For repeat launches I think there is missing edit ability too.
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The "Can't find file ..." used to worry me but that's how it goes, all normal
Ditto for the unit screen size in the SE, OK for checking how you've placed units but I guess not meant to do much more.
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If you run this export .dll you'll find in the attack page the cheat switch that changes sides of groups, I forget the order it happens, I think neutrals go to enemy, enemy to neutral and player to neutral but that might be wrong I hardly ever use it. There might be a mouse hover hint to tell you?
Also if you run this and attack a neutral it will be very unhappy and become your enemy
https://harpgamer.com/harpforum/files/file/809-toolbox/
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I now wonder if things like a neutral mine field work, I don't think so as they are basically a stationary submarine and have to fire a virtual torpedo to attack. A shame maybe there is no ramming?
This subject does touch on something I've done where under certain circumstances a neutral is turned to an enemy. I think it could be done on the basis of whether the player is detecting them or not, so if undetected they could be enemy and if detected turn to neutral. My mind is starting to boggle
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On 1/21/2025 at 3:44 PM, donaldseadog said:
You work very fast Enrique, it looks like another beauty
+++SPOILER ALERT+++
Not a full AAR, but I will vouch for this scenario having a lot of action having run thru playing as Blue.
Here's the butchers' bill to total victory stage.
I'm sure I can give the Blues a bit of curry next round
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Wow, that would be a hard one. There are 'secret air bases' but they still need to be written as Enemy, not neutral. And in reality they are just not a preknown base that is on a map of the world and thus of a known position.
There are weather patterns, that do not have a side, but aren't a platform and have no weapons etc, maybe game changes could be made and they could be weaponised.
Once upon a time neutrals did have some tendency towards helping the AI enemy, I was having my position clearly given away and it turned out to be neutral whales. That no longer occurs.
I've no idea what happens if you have a neutral with eg strong ECM equipment ( maybe try a Growler) on patrol.
Maybe there could be added to a database an effectively non detectable platform (it would still need to be an enemy) that had ECM ability.
I see a "Wish List" item perhaps. I might fiddle about with the idea,
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New wish added to first lost, when ai turns on 'enemy' radar it turns on instantly but periodic, not continuous. Maybe it turns off after some event eg the platforms performs an attack or the triggering threat is no longer detected.
It is such a sitting duck move by ai to turn on continuous radar at any provocation and leave it on.
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An extra small thing, the colour relates to unit side as known by the player rather than whether there is an exact fix. In the case of an exact fix the icon is an icon only but in case of inaccurate fix the icon will be surrounded by an uncertainty trapezium.
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The game tracks the various detection qualities for each unit in two different variables.
one variable I'll write as UnitShowing contains a value which indicates jointly whether the opponent has an exact fix or not and whether the opponent knows it's side or not. I don't know the mechanism for it's calculation.
the second variable I'll write as UnitData which indicates (amongst other things) the following related to the units enemy:
' has no location';
' has fix including altitude/depth'
' has exact fix'
' has approx location'
' has bearing only';
' - knows broad type';
',knows size';
',knows Class';
', knows Name';So for this purpose the info for both quality of location and quality of platform ID are in this variable. Again I don't know exactly how it is determined. It will relate to the value of the observer platforms' detectors, visibilty and the values of the observed units qualities such as radar cross section, hull noise, visual cross section distance mast height (or altitude).
As there are two variables I assume there are two separate (maybe related) mechanisms for determining if the side is known on the one hand and how much is known regarding the physicals of the platform and how accurately it's position is known. The variables are continuously updated and not remembered.
I think that the biggest thing to consider is that the best information collected isn't retained for so long as the contact is valid, which should be the real circumstance (although I have read of circumstances where confusion has occurred regarding multiple contact situations). Which means you need to remember yourself (although the game itself won't penalise you for shooting down or sinking an innocent neutral).
Here are two screen shots I have of the instant in your game (I played Blue) when red group ZZS detects the blue group AAS - and fires missiles. I played it with my tool AI_window operating, it's console is in the lower left of screen and near the upper right of the console you will see contact information listed for respectively the red ship unit and one of the missiles it's fired. The Red unit in the group window is some what hidden by the yellow missile. The side and exact location of the red ship is known and in the next line all of it's attributes such as vessel class, vessel name etc are known. For the missile however the side is unknown (AI doesn't make assumptions I guess) and we know the class (type) of missile and have an exact position. So the solid yellow icon for missile and solid red icon for the ship.
I know this doesn't answer your question but I hope it helps you a little to understand what is happening.
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Your scenatio for the test runs ok in malacca. I have a little info I can give you tonight when I wind up the computer again. It was too late last night.
I actually can't tell you much but maybe just seeing a little more on how it works will let you progress.
Your scheme for the scenario sounds great.
Don
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3 minutes ago, donaldseadog said:
Hi again Geo, can you tell me which BattleSet this is from, it is one of the custom battleset (the .scz file type shows this) is it one downloaded from here (if so which one) or one you have made?
It's OK, I think I found it is Malacca. This is a bit of a funny battleset as it has the same prefix as custom ones, not a unique prefix making it easy to ID.
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On 1/23/2025 at 10:34 AM, Geoaegis said:
Thanks Tony. Files attached. Also, operating with DB 2024.001
Hi again Geo, can you tell me which BattleSet this is from, it is one of the custom battleset (the .scz file type shows this) is it one downloaded from here (if so which one) or one you have made?
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Hi there Geoaegis,
I think I know what you are highlighting, the step from unknown side to known side sometimes seems to be by magic, also if detail is known about a contact it is not remembered and so if the strength of the contact degrades such as when you turn off your radar then that knowledge is lost.
Also there is a related matter that in HC we always know our friends, but in reality this is not always the case and sometimes friend fires on friend.
I don't know the details on how the game works it but determining Enemy/Neutral/Unknown never seems to me to be definitely related to the quality of knowledge regarding the contact but perhaps it should.
I have a few tools that look at some aspects of how the game operates so I'll play that zipped up test and see if I can observe anything meaningful.
Don
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You work very fast Enrique, it looks like another beauty
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WW2 Battle of Coral Sea (Alternative)
In WW2 to strengthen their defensive position in the South Pacific, the Japanese decided to invade and occupy Port Moresby (in New Guinea) and Tulagi (in the southeastern Solomon Islands). The plan, Operation MO, involved several major units of Japan's Combined Fleet. Two fleet carriers and a light carrier were assigned to provide air cover for the invasion forces. The U.S. learned of the Japanese plan through signals intelligence and sent two U.S. Navy carrier task forces and a joint Australian-American cruiser force to oppose the offensive.
On 3-4 May, Japanese forces invaded and occupied Tulagi, although several supporting warships were sunk or damaged in a surprise attack by aircraft off the U.S. carrier Yorktown. Alerted to the presence of enemy aircraft carriers, the Japanese fleet carriers advanced towards the Coral Sea to locate and destroy the Allied naval forces. On the evening of 6 May, the two carrier fleets closed to within 70 nmi (81 mi; 130 km) but did not detect each other in the darkness. The next day, both fleets launched airstrikes against what they thought were the enemy fleet carriers, but both sides actually attacked other targets. The U.S. sank the Japanese light carrier Shoho, and the Japanese sank the Sims, a destroyer, and damaged the fleet oiler Neosho. On 8 May, both sides located and attacked the other's fleet carriers, leaving the Japanese fleet carrier Shokaku damaged, the U.S. fleet carrier Lexington critically damaged, and the fleet carrier Yorktown lightly damaged.Both sides having suffered heavy aircraft losses and carriers sunk or damaged, the two forces disengaged and retired from the area. Because of the loss of carrier air cover, the Port Moresby invasion fleet was recalled. Although the battle was a tactical victory for the Japanese in terms of ships sunk, it has been described as a strategic victory for the Allies. The battle marked the first time since the start of the war that a major Japanese advance had been turned back.
(^^^^ from wikipedia)
The relative placement of the naval forces was influenced by many circumstances including tactical decisions, weather and luck. The four scenarios provided form a series which presents the participating forces in various differing locations.
Uses Database HCWW_101110 _ https://harpgamer.com/harpforum/files/file/277-hcww-101110/
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Submitter
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Submitted01/18/2025
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The attached scenario is run in westpac BS using HCDB 150929 database. GE 2024.006.
There is a single sub. THe max speed of this sub on surface is 10 kts. It is currently submerged and traveling at its max speed or 21 kts.
Use command F2 to set the speed/depth to surfaced and any speed about 10, say 15. Execute the command and the sub continues on the surface at an illegal speed. If you set the speed again you are now only able to set the legal speeds if it remains surfaced.A similar thing happens with subs that have a higher surface speed than their max submerged speed.
I would expect that when changing the speed/alt from submerged to surface you should only be able to set legal surface speeds.
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If a target is ordered to be attacked by an aircraft within gun range but outside gun arc (with no other weapons available) then a staff message is received "Sir, should we engage with only cannon fire?"
If you answer yes the game will crash. If you answer no then your plane proceeds on its current course with no action. If you determine the bearing of the enemy plane using ctrlF then use course editor F3 to head generally in that direction you can engage the enemy.
I'd expect that you should be able to answer yes to the staff message and have your aircraft turn to engage (if it turns fast enough), or at least not crash game.The test uses westpac BS and HCWW-101110 DB. I used GE version 2024.006 (but I've been seeing the issue for quite some time).
To reproduce start the saved game, your (sole) aircraft group should be active (selected), the enemy plane group is likely hidden in the GUI but is visible, issue attack F1 command (there should be only one available target) and answer yes to the staff message. There is a brief pause of a a few seconds and the game crashes.
The saved game and the original scenario are included.
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Having mounts on aircraft, or some way of having aircraft gun turrets (eg B-17) operate outside of the aircraft's gun arc.
Delayed turn of destroyer to engage enemy
in Defect Tracking
Posted
This appears to be unresolved, testing in most recent GE 2025.003. This issue causes most problem in scenario using limited range anti surface weapons such as naval guns.
Time to turn onto calculated course is about 30 mins unless the player intervenes by going thru the F3 Course command (no actual change seems to be necessary just call up and execute the existing course.