Recon aircraft and radar activation, Thoughts on a code change Options

[CV32]

This continues from an issue reported by Akmatov, raised in a thread here and reported in the Issue Tracker here.

Essentially, it appears that AI controlled aircraft of the 'Recon' type have not been activating their radar unless painted by enemy radar.

This appears to have been the case since a version of HC Gold (specifically, hcg-2003.16b4b+) and, amazingly, has gone unnoticed until now.

Currently, or at least until the next build is released, only aircraft of the 'AEW' (airborne early warning) and 'EW' (electronic warfare) types would activate their radar otherwise.

In the case of the AEW aircraft, they can energize upon reaching the 'next leg' of their programmed path, that being the patrol point.

The question arises, therefore, whether you (and we would especially like to hear from the scenario designers out there) want:

1. Recon aircraft activate their radar upon takeoff and keep it active while enroute to a patrol point and throughout their mission;

OR

2. Recon aircraft activate their radar only upon reaching their patrol point.

In either case a Recon aircraft would still activate their radar if they were 'painted' by enemy radar.

[CV32]

My personal feeling is that option 2 is preferable.

The example given in the original report, that is, the Bear D, illustrates the point.

Take the typical scenario where a Bear D takes off from the Kola Peninsula and flies a long range mission into the Norwegian Sea or even into the North Atlantic, seeking to locate and report a US Navy carrier battle group.

If the Bear D energizes its radar immediately upon takeoff, it will advertise its presence immediately to any enemy in the area and all the while enroute to its patrol area.

In the case of NATO ships or shore based assets at Norway, Keflavik or the UK, they will detect the Bear D long before the Bear D has any chance of detecting them (via ESM).

In the case of a US Navy battle group, the Bear D will undoubtedly be intercepted and destroyed by defending fighters long before it finds a carrier.

Instead, the practise was, and I think the practise should be, to carry out a radar silent approach while enroute to the patrol area and only energize radar upon reaching it.

This gives the Recon asset the best chance of reaching its assigned patrol area and actually detecting something before announcing its presence.

If discovered prematurely, the Recon asset would still energize its radar in the usual fashion.

Please offer your thoughts on the matter.

[Warhorse64]

Definitely option 2. Option 1 is pretty much suicide in just about any reasonable scenario.

[TEPonta]

Agree that Option 2 is correct.

Buddha

[donaldseadog]

Agree that Option 2 is correct.

Buddha

Of the two options I agree option 2, but I wonder whether it is good to have something like a recon aircraft available that will go on patrol and NOT automatically fire up radar (& get detected), which is the current situation? The poor old AI has a pretty hard time being steathy and that is more and more becoming high priority.
I'd like to see all patrols set with optional radar (and optional patrol altitude) at the time of setting up the patrol.
AI recon patrols (and similar) are usually pretty poor life insurance risks.
Don.

[CV32]

Of the two options I agree option 2, but I wonder whether it is good to have something like a recon aircraft available that will go on patrol and NOT automatically fire up radar (& get detected), which is the current situation? The poor old AI has a pretty hard time being steathy and that is more and more becoming high priority. I'd like to see all patrols set with optional radar (and optional patrol altitude) at the time of setting up the patrol. AI recon patrols (and similar) are usually pretty poor life insurance risks.

I'd certainly agree that the ability to manipulate sensor settings, altitudes, speeds, waypoints, etc, would be ideal, but this is a 'wish list' item rather than something that needs to be fixed now.

[JMS]

Option 2 hands down.

Would be kewl if there was an option for intermitent radar sweeps - or maybe I am missing it.

[broncepulido]

Ok for option 2 for me.

[Gopher]

The behavior of the aircraft is a result of tactics. The tactic is the result of the strategy. The strategy is the result of the assessment of threats and resources. And they are not in any real scenario the same.
In a normal PC game players can select between different levels of difficulty. Someone who is very good in one area (eg, submarine hunting) is not as good in another enriches (eg ground war) and vice versa.

RECON missions would need to differentiate between IMINT (image intelligence), RADINT (radar intelligence), SIGINT, etc.
In the case here I would prefer with reservations the solution 2.

In the event that an AEW aircraft without SS capabilities is in the air, it would be nice to give nearby a Bear D with radar switched on the whole route.

[CV32]

RECON missions would need to differentiate between IMINT (image intelligence), RADINT (radar intelligence), SIGINT, etc.
In the case here I would prefer with reservations the solution 2.

All true in an ideal world, but HCE only deals with these in the simplest fashion.

In the event that an AEW aircraft without SS capabilities is in the air, it would be nice to give nearby a Bear D with radar switched on the whole route.

A skilled scenario designer can manage to achieve this kind of teamwork.

[Akula]

My personal preference is for option #2. While it would be good to be able to see what is coming for the AI's perspective from launch, it also gives away the patrol points long before the AI has a chance to make any use of information it could gain from the patrol point.

If every one is like me, the moment they see a hit on a recon/aew bird, they send something out to intercept it. The longer the player can be kept in the dark about AI recon/aew assets, the better IMO.

[TonyE]

Option 2 is in place for the next build.