10 replies to this topic

[TonyE]

Let's brainstorm how to represent the various stages of the tactical turn game-wise. While they are fairly clearly delineated in the rules book I'm having a difficult time converting that flow to actual practice (such as, shouldn't the plotting phase really be part of the previous 15-second interval...).

[pmaidhof]

I will have to get back to you tomorrow at the earliest as I only have my 4.1 with me today and once I get home...anniversary today...no gaming.

[miller7219]

30-Second Tactital Turn

Plotting Phase - Or more appropriately called the "orders phase". Everytime the game shifts from real-time to turn the turn starts in plotting (orders) phase. Speed, course, altitude, sensor management, weapon allocation, reloading mounts, etc are all done here..then click DONE or EXECUTE or something to then kick in the real-time action THEN

Movement Phase - Or more appropriately called the "real-time phase" the computer effects non-weapon launch orders per Plotting Phase and moves non-aircraft/missiles targeted at aircraft 15 seconds of movement and all other platforms/missiles 30-seconds of movement THEN

Planned Fire Phase - Launches all weapons ordered for fire in the Plotting Phase THEN

Detection Check Phase - Sensors are checked for detection/continued detection THEN

Second Air Movement Phase - Move aircraft/missiles targeted at aircraft 15 more seconds of movement THEN

Reaction Fire Phase - Or more appropriately "mini-orders phase". Weapon systems not given orders in the plotting phase can now be ordered to fire THEN

Resolution Phase - Weapons that reached their target in the prior movement phase or 2nd Air Movement Phase now impact and casue damage THEN

Next 30-second Tactical Turn begins by stopping and awaiting orders (Plotting phase of new turn).

[pmaidhof]

I agree that 10min Intermediate Turns can be put aside for now.



Back to the 30 second Tactical Turn. Presume I'm following this correctly. If orders are given to specific platforms during a turn's plotting phase, is the game clock stopped at this point? As Tony mentioned should the orders being implemented from the previous turn's plotting phase? Would there be a finite amount of pltting phase (game-clocked stopped time) to give orders?

If "order changes" can be given during "real time" will there be a built in delay for that orders implementation?

[TonyE]

How about looking at this from a different angle. If playing PBEM, how many times per 30-second turn do you have to exchange info with your opponent. My feel is that the answer is (a minimum of) three times.

1. After simultaneously entering any plot changes, planned fires, sensor changes (mode and on/off), etc.
2. After entering reaction fire orders. This is as a result of the changed detections and locations due to the detection and 2nd air movement phase.
3. Upon completion of resolution phase.

The above three-exchange system assumes the two players use the same die rolls otherwise exchanges would have to be made for detection and resolution as well. I'm thinking computer-wise so it is easy enough to include a huge number of die rolls in the above two turn segments to carry the day (or even just a seed for the random number generator to make sure all die rolls are synchronized).

Pete, I think from this discussion it is obvious the natural state of the game will be paused for order entry. I'm still liking a realtime option and in this two-segment tactical turn it would be (logical guessing it) 20 seconds for segment 1, 10 seconds for segment 2. The vast majority of actions takes place in segment 1, segment 2 is just an annoying fly in the ointment.

Example Flow of Play

• Time 000.0
  
• Segment 1 (note my re-arranging of the phases, do we fire first or move first? I'm thinking of the examples in the rules book here)
  
• Plotting
  
• Planned Fire
  
• Movement
  
• Detection Check
  
• Send data bundle to other players

[*]Time 000.25

• Segment 2
  
  • 2nd Air Movement
  • Reaction Fire
  • Send data bundle to other players. Before sending each side only knows its own reaction fires and as such can't resolve the entire turn until Segment 3.
• Segment 3
  
  • Attack Resolution. No orders are entered here.
  • Send data bundle to other players.

[*]Time 000.5

• Segment 1
  
• ...

[/list]

[miller7219]

Well, I think once orders are entered in the Plotting phase and "Execute" is clicked the next 30 seconds plays out realtime with no stoppage possible to re-enter orders until the end and then back to Plotting for orders for next 30 sec tactical turn. To speed things up the player could string together several 30-second tactical turns...when "Execute" is clicked a window asks how many tactical turns do you wish to simulate. Player could type 4 for example and 4 consecutive 30 second tac turns would process before auto stopping back to plotting....although player could click the mouse say wihle turn 2 of the 4 are playing out and at the end of turn 2 the game would stop and revert to plotting phase.

[miller7219]

Fire first or move first??? The book say move first, but maybe that's not the most practical for PBEM. I'm not a PBEM'er so not sure about how that all works.

Tony...I think you got a good feel of the 30-sec tactical turn flow.

[TonyE]

Well, I think once orders are entered in the Plotting phase and "Execute" is clicked the next 30 seconds plays out realtime with no stoppage possible to re-enter orders until the end and then back to Plotting for orders for next 30 sec tactical turn.

How do you account for the reaction fire phase then? You'd have to be prescient about what happens in the detection phase in order to plan reaction fire at the start of the turn. That or as pmaidhof offered on IRC have standing orders (which he later agreed doesn't seem at first blush to fit into the intent and examples on page 15/16 of the rulebook).

[miller7219]

Stoppage happens automatically prior to the Resolution phase to allow reaction fire to be plotted. All platforms/projectiles have moved a full 30 secs of movement. Only weapons that were not plotted to fire in the movement plotting phase (at the start of the turn) may be plotted to fire in the reaction fire phase. If no unplotted weapons, or capable weapons (in bearing/range/capable vs. target) exists then computer could skip reaction fire to speed up play.

The purpose of the reaction phase is really to allow point defense weapons to engage. Missiles heading for that fat carrier often start outside of a CIW's range at the beginning of the turn (movement plot), but after 30 secs of movement are ready to impact during the resolution phase. Player could not plot the CIWs to fire in the movement plot phase per being out of range (or bearing), but needs to reaction fire phase to plot their fire prior to the missiles slamming the hull during the subsequent resolution phase after they've moved their 30 secs of movement and now are in range.

[TonyE]

Example Flow of Play

• Time 000.0
  
• Segment 1 (note my re-arranging of the phases, do we fire first or move first? I'm thinking of the examples in the rules book here)
  
• Plotting
  
• Movement
• Planned Fire
• Detection Check
  
• Send data bundle to other players

[/list]

Okay, after re-reading the rulebook examples it appears they follow the stated structure of movement before planned fire. This adds some complexity since the game will have to estimate positions at launch (i.e. post movement) at the plotting phase to know which weapons will be in range.

ex. At start of turn target PTM is within Harpoon range but is running away from the firing ship. After movement the PTM will no longer be in range. Therefore during the plotting phase the player can't fire Harpoon since it will be out of range after the movement phase even though it isn't out of range at the time the orders are being given.

[TonyE]

After an IRC chat today we seem to have reached agreement on the tactical turn layout, data exchanges (3 as I listed in my segments post), and such.